HIDDENROBOT PRESENTS - THE ALCHEMY OF MACK
Universally hailed as one
of the most innovative creators in the history of comics, David Mack continues
to both amaze and inspire fans all over the world with his ICON Comics ongoing
series Kabuki.
So far 2007 has been a busy
year for David; with Kabuki Reflections #7, Kabuki - The Alchemy #8, the Ms.
Marvel, White Tiger & Witchblade series each bearing his painted covers,
the writing of Se7en: Envy, the announcement his co-writing Daredevil: The End
of Days, and punctuated by a superb DVD Documentary.
The Alchemy of Art DVD
produced by Hero Video Productions is a very intimate and inspiring look into
his life and art. The 2 hour documentary/interview touches upon many subjects
of Mack's career that HiddenRobot felt fans were eager to explore even further!
PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE
MACK
You didn't own a TV as a
child, at least until your 20's as indicated on the DVD. Is television a part
of your adult life? If you where to be a father one day, knowing how
instrumental the absence of this medium was in your artistic development, would
you ditch the television?
DM: I would be conscious of its influence. I enjoy listening to documentaries
on TV while I work. I don’t watch channels that have commercials and advertisements.
I can’t stand them. And on the off chance that I am, I mute them or change the
channel. I enjoy listening to commentaries of DVDs while I work. The TV is a
tool or medium, and like any other, it can be a great help and educational
source, of if abused, I’ve seen it drain people’s motivation for having a life
and ideas of their own.
Your mother Ida Mack,
presumably did not get to see the world-wide acclaim and artistic evolution of
Kabuki. Given the series is dedicated in her name, and given her perspective on
your childhood/adolescent art, what might her assessment be of your current
art? Would it be her "cup of tea" as you put it?
DM: She was alive when the very first Kabuki issue was published. She saw that
I was able to make a living from that, so I think she had a sense that I was
going to be ok in the adult world living my dreams of writing stories and
telling stories in books. A few of those early issues, I was drawing and inking
at her bedside in her final months. Probably my more recent work would be more
something that would be accessible to her on certain levels. I think that she
would be able to appreciate the current KABUKI: The Alchemy story. And I think
she would be able to appreciate the Echo story from my third Daredevil story. And
most of all, she would probably love the new children’s book The Shy Creatures
that is being published this year. As she was a first grade teacher, I think it
would be something she would greatly appreciate, and in a kind of language that
she enjoyed.
The DVD presents
glimpses of your home, which presumably is your childhood home; it seems part
museum, part living testament to your life and art – almost like a giant
collage...it has inspired DD stories, Kabuki stories...what is it about this
structure that continues to prove itself a voice in your fiction?
DM: No, I don’t live in my childhood home. We lived in over thirteen different
houses when I was growing up. Some for only a year at a time. The house I use
as my studio now, is a house my mother moved into just a couple of years before
she died. After she died, it was filled with stuff. I mean boxes completely
filling rooms. Filling the garages. Lots of stuff. My brother and I were both
in college at the time. So my brother and I decided to occupy it together while
we sorted things out and converted it to our base of operations, while we paid
off the mortgage of the house. And for a time, Chinese Calligrapher Andy Lee
moved in to live there and launched his artistic career there as well. It was
like Fight Club. All of us in that house working out how to launch our mission
and fulfill our dreams.
It is kind of a giant collage. It is kind of like a living breathing
three-dimensional artwork that you can live inside and make new baby artworks
to send into the world. The story in the current KABUKI: The Alchemy series,
with Kabuki and M.C. Square occupying the same house while they figure out how
to make a living while cultivating their plans: Kabuki trying to start her
career as a children’s book author, and M.C.Square recording her scientific
research while learning to DJ and them using the university as a resource, and
developing their principles of how to work efficiently and produce better
ideas, has a significant correlation to that time in our life as we lived there
together and did the same thing.
I had cultivated certain
principles for developing my art and turning dreams into reality that I had
recorded (in fact wrote them on the walls of the house at that time) and I’m
putting those into the this story as a major theme and process. As a blueprint
even.
THE ART OF CREATION
Terri Moore talks about
your lack of inhibitions, artistically. Is that a matter of confidence,
practice, peace of mind? What takes an artist around that corner, beyond
competent and entertaining, to innovative and dynamic?
DM: I just start with the story. I listen to the story and try to collaborate
with it and help it shape itself the way it seems to want to take shape. The
point of doing comic to me is that they are such a fascinating medium full of
potential and I love the idea of them being a synthesis of story and art. If
they are done well, the story and art is indistinguishable. So anytime, I do a
book (a book of any kind) I’m approaching it as a writer, as a storyteller, and
using the art, the media, the art style, the pace and rhythm all as a tool of
the writing.
That is where it starts. I suppose practice and perseverance and persistence
are big ingredients as well. It is all a matter of doing the work, and all the
innovation and ideas come from the doing of the work. I don’t know if it is a
matter of confidence, because I’m not thinking through the lens of ego when I
work. When you are in the zone writing and making art, and telling a story, you
transcend any ego. You connect with the story and are focused on that. It is
not so much confidence in yourself, because you are not thinking of yourself.
You have to have confidence in the ideas that come to you out of the work. You
have to trust that the ideas are smarter than you are.
Have you ever
experienced a creative slump? Aside from your own internal drive what external
influences keep the creative process going?
DM: There is never any creative slump because the ideas come from the work.
When you are working on one thing, so many new ideas come from that process
that open doors that you could not have envisioned before hand. And you also
get ideas for other future projects. You can get a ton of ideas from the work,
and some you can use just for that thing you are currently working on. But
others are ideas that will work better for something else. So you write those
ideas down, and then you have lists of all kinds of future projects that you
won’t even be able to start for years later. And you keep working out more of
those ideas in the meantime.
And then when you relax from work, more ideas come. And you interact with
people and more ideas come from that. All you have to do is write them down.
And then decide which is the best for the next project. So, I’ve never had a
lack of ideas or stories for projects. The struggle is always to try to keep up
with the ideas and time management.
The DVD showcases a
series of pieces that are simply sitting outside your home...canvases made of
various materials like tile board and other misc. surfaces, and you've adorned
them with incredible paintings and sketches. What continues to drive your
passion for "found art"?
DM: I started making art very young. And I made art out of mostly garbage.
Leftovers. Old boxes, old wood, scrap paper, etc. I have a natural tendency to
look at something mundane and see the value in it. See what I could use it for,
or what I could turn it into. Much of art to me is the magic of making value
out of nothing. Turning garbage into gold to keep with the Alchemy metaphor.
Your influences seem to
be right there on the page, literally sometimes in the form of works created by
some of history's greatest artists that you have replicated, could you mention
some names and maybe even some specific pieces that have inspired you over
time.
DM: I’m open to taking in things from all levels and all times and all
cultures. I have a pretty wide open radar about where I can find inspiration.
For instance, in the current Kabuki story, there is quite a bit of ripples in
the story that were inspired by research into Nikola Tesla and Shakespeare, as
well as a hundred other places. My art, my stories are kind of where I digest
and sort and connect and piece together and integrate and absorb all of the
research and experiences that I take in as a person.
You stated on the DVD,
"Sometimes your ideas and instincts are smarter then you are and sometimes
you just have to follow that."
How much of that notion plays into your overall creative process? Is it an
attempt to balance preconception and spontaneity for you? How much of that
notion plays into the construction of Kabuki on an issue by issue basis and
even for the series as a whole?
DM: There is quite a lot of conscious design, and effort and hard work and
planning, but doing those things gets you in tune to the zone where the large
ideas hit you over the head and have a way of being attracting themselves to
you when you are in the zone of dedicated work. Then the you have to roll with
them and the work becomes larger than you are, and larger than you could have
figured out ahead of time.
Shy Creatures will
arrive in Fall 2007 as your first foray into children’s literature, where are
you going with children's books for those who might not have seen the DVD or
been to your message board recently?
DM: For The Shy Creatures, I wrote the entire story of it while I was writing
the script to KABUKI: The Alchemy.
I had set a premise in the Kabuki series of incorporating children’s stories
into the narrative of the story. And the story itself as a retelling of
children’s stories.
For instance, the first KABUKI volume KABUKI: Circle of Blood is a retelling of
Volume 2 of KABUKI, called Dreams, alludes to some Japanese folk stories for
children, including the Japanese Book of Hells.
In Vol 4 KABUKI: Skin Deep, where Kabuki is incarcerated into a maximum
security facility for reprogramming or containing defective government agents,
Dr. Suess was the central Kids book reference.
And In KABUKI: Metamorphosis, I had introduced My Invisible Friend to
underscore the themes of that story.
So when I was writing KABUKI: The Alchemy, where Kabuki is looking for a new
line of work, I knew this was going to be the series that all of the references
to those children’s stories paid off and came to the forefront of the story and
not just as subtext.
There is a moment in the story when Kabuki is given some children’s books that
are said to have a hidden meaning beyond the surface layer. And that the story
and themes in the books have a deeper ripple effect to their readers than just
pure entertainment for children.
So I knew I was going to feature one of these books in full in the context of
the story. That book was The Shy Creatures. And I wrote it in full while in the
course of writing the second issue script of The Alchemy.
I wanted the art of The Shy Creatures to be very simple and expressive. And I
wanted it to contrast the painted approach of the rest of the Kabuki issue. So
I rendered The Shy Creatures entirely with brush and ink.
Each double page of The Shy Creatures, is actually one horizontal page of 8 1/2
by 11 typing pager. I sketched it in pencil loosely, and then drew it directly
in ink with a brush so it would have a spontaneity and expressiveness to it
that I get from the quick rich strokes of a brush and ink.
On the Alchemy of Art DVD from herovideoproductions.com it shows each and every
page of The Shy Creatures in its black and white original form. One of the
extra features on the DVD is me doing a reading of the book, directly from the
original pages that are filmed page by page.
It is just a really quick and simple and expressive way to work. I felt like it
was a good way to express imagination, and would be effective in activating
imagination in the reader. And imagination is much of what the story is about.
It begins in a classroom with children talking of what they want to be when
they grow up. Doctors, firemen, teachers, etc. But there is a Shy Girl in the
class and she wants to be a doctor to the Shy Creatures. When the teacher asks
what she means, she begins mentioning various mythological and
crypto-zoological creatures. And what problems they may encounter. And how she
would help them.
For instance:
“What if the Chupacabra didn’t brush his teeth?
What if they all fell out so he couldn’t eat?
I’d make for him some dentures to get fed!
Then he could eat my vegetables instead!”
And instead of the Chubacabra’s fanged teeth she makes for him some bugs bunny
type dentures just right to chew up her vegetables. And the visuals are of the
Shy Girl romping around with each of these creatures and helping them with
their unique problems. One of my favorites is when she makes the near-sited
Cyclops a set of one-eyed- glasses.
Was the decision to take
your material into the realm of children’s books a premeditated one, or more
just recognizing a great fit?
DM: I loved children’s books since I was a kid. I remember reading Peter Pan,
and Alice in Wonderland as a child and being fascinated by the fanciful
imagery. And before that, reading Doctor Seuss and being inspired by the
whimsical approach to storytelling and the imaginative creatures and layouts.
When I was in university, I had a Children’s Literature class. In the course of
that class I created my first children’s book called My Invisible Friend. This
was in 1993. I turned it in for my work in that class.
Later, in the second issue of the KABUKI: Metamorphosis volume (the story that
comes right before the current KABUKI: The Alchemy series from Marvel), I
incorporated the My Invisible Friend kids book inside the Kabuki story. So you
see that story page by page in the context of that Kabuki issue and it kind of
acts as a whimsical subtext to what the surface story is about.
Could you see yourself
illustrating children’s books as well as both writing/illustrating?
DM: I could see it happening if it was a writer I really wanted to collaborate
with. But that would be a big exception. Usually when I’m drawing something it
is to tell a story that I’ve written. I could more easily envision writing
other children’s books with other artists drawing it.
LIFE BETWEEN THE PANELS
Miller's Daredevil, Alan
Moore's V for Vendetta, Will Eisner...and a lot of GI Joe, any other specific
comic-based influences?
DM: Watchmen was quite influential on me when I read it as a kid. All of Alan
Moore’s and Frank Miller's work was.
What is your
relationship to Frank Miller, have you ever had the off chance to discuss
possible projects?
DM: I have met him a few times and he has always been kind to me in those brief
encounters. The last time I spoke with him was after the
Is there anything in the
current market that intrigues you?
DM: I like all of Paul Pope’s work. I like Ivan Brunetti. I like Dash Shaw.
Powers is always tops.
Brian Michael Bendis
recently talked about Daredevil: End of Days for which you will each share
writing duties. He termed it, "your return to the mainstream" -
following those words, why haven't we seen more of you through any number of
Marvel titles?
DM: I’ve been pretty occupied writing and drawing Kabuki at Marvel. And after
each issue of Kabuki, I do a few covers for books and work on writing some
projects. I intend to do a lot more writing of Marvel projects that you will
see when this current Kabuki storyline concludes. And I’ve been keeping up the
Reflections art book series as well. And I have some other Kids book ideas on
the way.
When you see other
artists doing a "Mack" what is your reaction to a piece that is
obviously working off of your style or even your characters?
DM: I usually can’t tell. When someone tells me they did something in what they
call “my style”, most of the time it looks very foreign to me. Then I might
think, “Oh, they are thinking of that thing I did nine years ago that I did as
a very specific solution to a challenge to tell that particular story and they
think that is my style”. It can be like looking at yourself in a fun-house
mirror. When it seems to be all about something they think is a “style” rather
than the best way to communicate the story, you hope it is something that is
helpful to them to just break out of a mold and get that out of their system to
get them to their own place.
And other times, I can see something quite good, and someone says it is their
version of my approach or something they said they learned from my
storytelling, and I can see that it was a bridge to get them to do something
quite unique and in their own voice. And that can be very rewarding. To think
that readers and artists are getting something helpful from my work that they
can use as a leaping point and grow from.
Speaking of your characters, how do you feel about Echo
getting a starring role on the New Avengers and moving directly to the A-List
of the Marvel Universe?
DM: I trust Brian Michael
Bendis as a writer and I get a big kick out of it. He let me read those scripts
ahead of time and I really enjoyed them.
You offered this
synopsis of Kabuki recently - "The first volume (KABUKI: Circle of Blood)
is kind of a crime story/espionage story." and I'm really excerpting here
- "The current volume (KABUKI: The Alchemy) from Marvel’s Icon line, is
about how to turn the problems of your past, into something useful and
practical for your future. How to turn your garbage into gold." What
inspired such a seemingly radical shift in the themes of the story?
DM: Just natural progression. Natural evolution of the character and the story.
I don’t really see the differences so much as I see the connection. I get asked
what Kabuki is about so often that I recently posted a response on the FanBoy
radio site. This one:
"The first volume (KABUKI: Circle of Blood) is kind of a crime
story/espionage story. It was me doing a kind of updated version of a George
Orwell 1984 story where the media has become a mouthpiece for corporations and
government to influence the culture. The (multi-national) corporation
super-cedes the nation state as the real power in the world and used the media
and what we used to call the news to maintain its true interest-making money
and keeping control by exerting a state of fear and constant war about
something.
I wrote it in 1993 and began publishing it in 1994. I thought I would take some
of what was beginning to happen in the media then and turn up the volume of it,
exaggerate it, to make a point. It doesn’t feel as exaggerated when I read it
now.
In the story, there is a kind of interdependence between the organized crime,
corporations, government, and media. And there is a government agency that
polices that interdependence. t is an agency called the Noh. The Noh also has
its own television channel called Noh TV in which it exerts its influence by
soft power or cultural power. With characters clothed in nationalistic
iconography and cultural masks. The general populace believe these characters
to be kind of media idol talking heads about the daily propaganda. But there
are also rumors that the masked animations on the news are also operatives of
the media that keep the scales balanced between the organized crime corporations
and the political pundits if they go too far in either direction.
Kabuki is one of these media icons of channel Noh. At a certain point, her
personal family obligations supersede the nationalistic propaganda that she
grew up believing and she embarks on a path that puts here against the powers
that she formerly served.
The current volume (KABUKI:
The Alchemy) from Marvel’s Icon line, follows the same main character, but it
is after she has left her former line of work and has decided to start a new
career. It kind of starts in that place people can sometimes find themselves
after graduating high school or college, or switching jobs where you ask, what
am I really here to do? How do I figure that out? And after figuring that out,
how do I make it happen? It is about practical applications of making that
happen, and about the nature of ideas and creativity in general (about
practical applications for turning those ideas and dreams into reality). And
specifically, how to turn the problems of your past, into something useful and
practical for your future.
How to turn your garbage into gold.
Each of the volumes has a different theme to it and uses a different
storytelling style. Between these descriptions for the first and most recent
volumes, I hope you get a sense of the themes of the story and if it is
something you might want to try.
Davidmackguide.com has preview pages for each and every issue, so you can see
how each one has its own approach."
I should also qualify that those are some of the themes and some of the ways to
view it. Takashi Hattori wrote a great afterward in the first volume about the
different ways to approach the story. As I mentioned earlier, there is a kind
of children’s book- fairly tale kind of approach to each one as well.
But in consideration of these themes, you reminded me of a recent interview I
did for a documentary film.
I believe the film is about the view of the
I did the interview in my hotel room when I was in NYC this Friday, right after
they interviewed Noam Chomsky (who is also mentioned in that issue of Kabuki).
They had some great questions about how their dealt with a lot of the themes
discussed in The Alchemy. The Global War of Art. That kind of thing.
MACK AT THE MOVIES
You’re serving as Visual
Designer, Creative Consultant and Co-Producer for the movie production of
Kabuki. Can you give us some details about where production is right now?
DM: I just want to make the best film possible from it. The main challenge has
been to decide what to leave out.
With the success of
films like
DM: Both
One last question - do
you own an eraser?
DM: Ha! Terry Moore’s lines in the DVD are may favorite part of the it. I do
have a big pink eraser that someone gave me about ten years ago. I use it to
erase pencil lines from a painting sometimes. But sometimes I like them to
remain. Sometimes if I draw a line of an arm or figure and decide to move it, I
often tend to just draw the new one next to it and let the original remain as a
ghost of Christmas past.